Interview (English)

What is your birth date?   

June 3, 1931   

Where were you born, and what memories do you have of that place?   

I was born in Beaumont-Village, in Touraine.    

Do you have any special memories of that place?   

Yes, in particular, being asked by the city council to make the large painting that decorated the float at the annual canton parade, and of being paid by the city council to do so.    

Did you live anywhere else during your childhood?   

I lived with my parents until I was 16-17, before moving to Paris.   

Can you tell us about your parents?    

My father was a well-known blacksmith in my village. My mother used to stay home to look after my brothers and sisters.   

Did you have many brothers and sisters?   

We were a family of six children. My mother used to have a lot of work.   

Can you tell us about a childhood memory that had a particular impact on your life?   

I was 8 years old when the World War II was declared, and that was the darkest period of my teenage years.   

Can you tell us about your education and the schools you attended?   

I attended my village school until I got my certificate.  It was not possible to pursue higher education during the War. My village was located in the unoccupied "free zone," and you needed a pass to get into the occupied area. Only a few people had one.   

So you didn't study from the time you got your certificate at 8 years old up until you were 17 years old?   

I wasn't able to. There was no access to schools during the War.    

What were your aspirations when you became an adult?   

To be able to work in the field of drawing. That's when I moved to Paris to live with my mother's family, which I didn't know. Because my mother was from Paris, she was a widow of the 1914 War, with a daughter.   

So you started painting when you moved to Paris?   

I used to do charcoal sketches in my spare time. I used to hang out around Montmartre, Place du Tertre. And in the evening, in a municipal hall at Lamarck-Caulincourt, I took charcoal drawing lessons with two Fine Arts teachers. That's where I drew my first nudes.   

Was there any particular challenge during that time?   

In fact, it was difficult to balance my work schedule with my passion for drawing. But I was living on Rue St-Julien Le Pauvre, just across from Square Viviani, facing the Notre-Dame Cathedral, so I used to set up my easel on the banks of the Seine whenever I had some spare time.  I especially liked the St-Michel Fountain and picturesque streets such as Rue St-Séverin and Rue de la Huchette. Cars were rare back then.   

Have you ever been married? If so, who was your wife?   

During my 18-month military service at the Saumur Cavalry School, where the amazing Cadre Noir horsemen stood out, I met a Saumur resident who would later become my wife.   

Did she appreciate what you were doing, as far as painting was concerned?   

Yes, she found out about my painting in the context of local exhibitions. After that, during that 18-month period, she used to meet me on the banks of the Loire, where I used to paint.   

Let's go back to your private life. How many children do you have? What are their names?   

I have one daughter. Her name is Laurence. Very sweet and brave, she's very talented. Unlike me, she traveled very early in her life, and when she was 20 she moved to Boston, in the US, to work as an au pair for a few months.  After her studies in advertising, she worked for several drawing companies in Paris. She wanted to go back to the United States. Getting a Green Card was very difficult, so she went to Canada for an exploratory trip, and she came back with an employment offer. She got her visa 8 months later, and she's been living in Quebec for the past 20 years. We thought she would come back, but she never did.   

Did you ever visit her there?   

We used to go there at least twice a year, me and my wife, to see our grandson, do some sightseeing, and take pictures for my Quebec paintings. And we visited the United States.   

Have you traveled a lot or lived outside of France, and how did this influence your conception of art and life in general?   

No, I haven't traveled much except for some nice trips with my wife.   

Did it have any influence on your painting?   

I don't think so. But I was delighted to discover very beautiful paintings, especially at the St. Petersburg Hermitage Palace in Russia, and in Florence, Italy. I also fell in love with the Granada Gardens in Andalusia.   

Have you had any artistic training, whether in a school or with any other kind of formal training?   

I didn't have any formal training except for my charcoal lessons with those two Fine Arts teachers who used to come to Montmartre.   

Did your family support your artistic ambitions?   

My family encouraged me to accept invitations to show my work at various exhibitions: at the Salon des Arts et Métiers in Hotel de Ville in Paris, and at the Francilienne des Arts in Chateau de Lormoy, where a senator presented me with the Senate Award.   

Did you have any other job?   

Yes, in a mechanical laboratory.   

And did you work until you retired?   

Yes.   

When did you retire?   

When I was 60.   

At first, when painting Montmartre, what inspired you the most?   

Old Paris, because I was living there.   

And then someone invited you to show your work at Salon des Indépendants?   

I followed the advice of a friend, the painter Farina, who had a permanent position in a Montmartre gallery, to sponsor an exhibition at the Grand Palais' Salon des Indépendants. This happened in the early 1980s. And it was during my first exhibition that he told me to take the "i" out of Garnier, since there were five other artists there with the same name.   

Did you sell any paintings before those years?    

Of course, to people I knew and on commission. Which was a good thing, because I had to pay my registration fees and catalog costs.   

Why did you decide to devote your work to scenes of the Loire Valley?   

For two reasons: the Loire Valley and its castles reminded me of my youth, and Americans love castles.   

Were there any specific subjects you liked to paint?   

All landscapes created by mirror images reflecting from water.   

Is there any technique you picked up on your own, by trial and error?   

I had a burning desire to learn a technique called "glaze technique."   

Do you usually paint directly on site or do you work from photos depicting castles and other landscapes?   

When I was young, even after getting married, I used to go out with my easel and paint.  I would first make a sketch, choose a subject to work on, and then finish it in my studio.  Then, for several years, I used to travel across France with my wife to take pictures of the places I would then reproduce, while modifying them to my liking.   

How long does it usually take you to finalize a painting?   

From the day I start the canvas to the varnishing stage, it takes me about six months. Excluding the number of times I start over.   

Your work is often described as photographic realism. Did you originally plan to paint this way, or did your style develop gradually?   

I never searched for a style. My painting is the result of my pigment blends and my successive layers. During this period, pigments hadn't undergone any ecological modification yet. Nowadays, with modified pigments, it's impossible to achieve the blends on which the "glaze technique" depends. It just so happened that I had access to a manufacturer who had those old tubes in stock.   

So you've always worked with this sort of highly realistic painting?   

My passion for research made me ignore all the trends that surrounded me.

Was there any moment when you had trouble finding inspiration? Have you ever thought of ending your professional career as a painter?   

Painting has always been my passion. I've never thought of it as a job.   

Do you keep yourself informed about art world events?   

I was a "Valeur de l'art" subscriber for a long time. This is how I kept in touch with the evolution of modern art.   

Can you tell us about the difficulties you encountered with contemporary artists and enthusiasts?   

Figurative painters had the feeling they were making modern art uncomfortable. The location of our exhibitions made us feel marginalized.   

Can you tell us what happened in Amsterdam?   

At that time, arts patron Didier Farvacque was organizing an exhibition outside France. At his request, I entrusted him with two canvases. This exhibition consisted of figurative paintings only. On the opening day, when the party was over, you can imagine our surprise when we were verbally assaulted by a man who was waiting for us and said, "We want nothing to do with figurative painters here! Next year, don't come back!"   

Can you talk about your relationship with the Société des Artistes Indépendants?    

The creation of the Salon des Indépendants dates back to 1884. In the early 1980s, whenever I showed my work at the Salon, I used to do the Salon des Artistes Français, the Salon d'Automne, etc., afterwards - the so called historic Salons. This was a tradition. But within a decade modern art became ubiquitous, sometimes with excess. You could see the pieces of Italian artist Piero Manzoni at the Modern Art Museum in Paris. That's when the CDAGP (Committee for the Defense of Artists of Grand Palais) was created. During a general meeting of this committee, the President of the Fine Arts School, Mr. Baboulet at that time, shouted while raising his arms to the sky, "We no longer teach at the Fine Arts School, it's all about free expression now!" At the same time, Jean Clair's academic writings were saying that modern art is a return to the primitive brain and that we are happily and savagely burying our own culture.   

What was your status at the Salon des Indépendants? Were you a member? 

Nothing more than a member. I didn't want a prominent position.  

Do you remember visiting the galleries in New York where your works were exhibited?   

In 1993 my two New York brokers asked me to come to New York to sign some posters for the Madison Avenue Garner exhibition at the Heidi Neuhoff Gallery. What a pleasure it was to sign a poster for Nadine de Rothschild!   

You've been to New York twice?   

The second time I was in the north of New York. I was invited to go to a museum named The Cloisters, with my brokers, who had organized a solo exhibition there. I was surprised by this exceptional reception.   

Can you tell us the name of your brokers?   

Out of respect for the trouble they went through at that time, which forced them to abandon their work, I cannot.    

From that moment you ceased to exhibit and sell?   

I sold some paintings on commission. But in France, figurative painters were increasingly uncomfortable with the modern art threat. This threat was denounced in Christine Sourgins' book "The Mirages of Contemporary Art."   

Did you have your works shown in any other galleries, in France or elsewhere?   

Many associations have invited me to show my works in several towns across France. And in Germany, Oberhausen - the twin city of my home town, Sainte Geneviève des Bois. At the Salambo gallery in Geneva, and in Prague via an association.   

When you sell your works, do you handle the negotiations?   

With my American brokers, I used to settle for the price they offered me, since they absorbed my entire production. When they ceased their activity, a friend told me the price of a painting she found in New York: about 17 times what I had been paid.   

Over the course of the years, how many works have you created?   

Approximately 200-250 paintings. Before my exhibition at the Grand Palais, my creations were simply the result of my research. It was not until the early 80s, when my American brokers discovered me, that my motivation to create was boosted.  

Do you feel you've been given the recognition you deserve as an artist, or are you indifferent to this?   

I'm indifferent to that. However, it's always a pleasure to hear visitors say that a particular painting is soothing. Moreover, the American mindset, as revealed by my brokers, is very different from the European mindset. An American collector tries to imagine whether a particular painting adjusts to the place where he lives. The signature of the artist on the painting is secondary.   

Do you have you any other passions or interests?   

Classical music has always accompanied my moments of reflection. Beethoven, Mozart and Tchaikovsky make up a large part of my record collection.   

You told us that you had stopped painting?   

That's right. It has been three years since I lost my wife. Alone, during the first year, I painted a series of tiny, sophisticated canvases - to forget, get lost, and think of nothing else.  I've stopped painting since then.   

So she played an important role in your creativity?   

My mind was at peace when she was around. I was able to withstand life's challenges.   

What advice would you give to someone who wants to pursue an artistic career?   

I'd tell them to get a job where they get enough free time to sketch and paint, and to do so according to the trends of the period.   

Is there anything else you'd like to share with us?   

Focusing on the art world, I'd say that the West went through an unprecedented century. Personally, though age may account for part of this, I can't always understand people who are drawn into this maze under the pretext of free expression. With the development of new technologies, our culture has undergone great degradation. But I want to remain optimistic because I see a timid return to figurative art, despite all the difficulties created by new pigments under the pretext of ecology.

Interview conducted in French and translated and edited by Marine Parent, David Kokakis and Laurence Garnier.